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Glee: We just hate atheists and agnostics, okay?
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I think that a small portion of my f-listers are fans of Glee, and I know that a large portion of my f-listers have the same religious beliefs as I do. If you'll excuse me, I'd like to RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE about Glee last night.

If you've followed the cut, please be aware that I am a strong atheist. Obviously, not everyone knows my religious background so here it is in a nutshell - I was raised in a Mormon town and when I was 10 I decided that my grandparents would love me if I got baptized into the Mormon church. Before, during, and after the process of getting baptized I knew I would regret it. I think that George from Dead Like Me really captured my exact feelings towards the whole god issue -

When I was little my mom told me Santa Claus didn't exist, neither did the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy or the Great Pumpkin. Even though she didn't say so specifically, I just sort of assumed that God didn't either.

Shortly after being baptized I stopped going to church (not that I went at all before the whole fiasco, but yeah) and waited until I turned 18 so I could "officially" leave the church. Anyway, I didn't mean to get into my boring religious history, so let's continue on with the topic at hand - Glee sucks for me.

If you watched last night, you probably saw what I did. To break it down, a bad thing happens to a character's parent, said character is an atheist and all of the characters try and shove religion down this kid's throat, and even go to his father's hospital room to pray and sing WITHOUT HIS PERMISSION.

That kind of thing just completely disgusts me. Just...ugh. It was a very "Us vs. Them" episode and I really hated it. I don't know if I can enjoy the characters anymore because of how they acted in this one episode. Aaaaaaaargh.

I imagine this post makes no sense, but I think I've vented most of my coherent RAAAAAAAAAAAGE with charming_goats, so this is just the leftover anger. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

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I'm surprised Glee might do an episode about something as divisive as religion - especially when there are such bitter relationships with those in the same category (various baptists, catholics vs protestants, sunni vs shiite, etc). I haven't watched Glee, and I'm not sure I could sit through a whole half-hour of the stuff. Ugly Betty was intense to me; even though I was able to sit through one episode, I didn't want to watch more.

If it makes you feel any better about your baptism, my mom and sister and I only got baptised so we'd be written into the wills of my great aunt and great uncle (who don't have kids). If they found out that my mom converted to Judaism or how agnostic I am, all their stuff would go to their evangelical lutheran church. I kinda suspect most of it is going there anyway.

There's a really great image floating online lately, about how religion is like adult penises... or something, emphesising the "shouldn't be shoved down kids' throats" line. Hell, the first time I ever went to church, I became an athiest afterwards.

I love that image/text, I saw it floating around on tumblr, I think.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one that was a bit offended by the episode. I was surprised glee even decided to make such an episode since religion is a touchy subject for pretty much everyone. I don't feel like they treated the subject of atheism very well.

Good rant, this episode just pissed me off! if they had tried to sing happy Jesus/god songs to me I would have walked out, and the praying. He said he didn't want to. It would just make me feel worse. Shoving your religion down someones throat is not right.

So worst ep ever, well except for he sang loosing my religion

I don't know, I disagree. =/ I thought Kurt made several excellent arguments for the side of atheism, and the whole thing with Emma and Sue was great - Emma saying "that's what you believe, but please don't shove it down our throats" and Sue saying "yeah, exactly." I thought that was awesome. I also think the whole storyline with Grilled Cheesus was supposed to be sort of poking fun at all the religious crazies, which I thought it did cleverly.

I feel like it was a very well-done episode to be dealing with something so controversial. I mean, yes, most of the characters were all up in the praying and loving God stuff, but several of them were against it or of different faiths, and it was one of those everyone-learns-something things, where the God people learned to be respectful of others' choices, the atheists learned to have a little faith (not necessarily in God, but to not be as negative as Kurt was in the beginning), etc. I thought it did okay.

And honestly, a lot of the people in this country are Christian, so that is probably a fair representation of how it would have happened irl. People are always going on about how Glee is unrealistic, but I felt that this episode was probably the most true to life they've had yet. And it wasn't like it was making a statement about what you should believe - I really thought it was more about character development in Kurt and Finn than anything else.

I don't know. This is just what I think. I love Glee, and it makes me sad for people to hate on it. :D

I really don't think there was anything wrong with Kurt's attitude in the beginning, and he didn't need to find something to believe in.

I keep going back to TLo's recap of the episode, because it was able to say so many things I cannot find words for. This bit is especially perfect - "Look, you want to do a pro-religion episode? Do that. Own it. But don't start off as if you're showing all points of view, only to have one point depicted as flawed at the end. They didn't have the balls to have Sue and Kurt happily embrace their atheism. Very disappointing."

Because honestly, they could not have picked two worst characters to talk about atheism: the villain and the gay kid that some Christians don't take seriously because of his sexual preference. My friend Heather and I were trying to figure out why they didn't chose another character to portray as atheist or agnostic. We both agreed that it was weird that Tina wasn't on the atheist side.

I'm not hating on Glee itself, it's just that I do not agree with how they decided to portray atheism and those against it, it was disgusting to me to feel like I should be "fixed" from my crazy ideas.

This post made me kinda glad I didn't spend my evening watching. I loved glee when I started watching halfway through last season, but my time this fall is so much more limited that I was unwilling to give up another evening to television, so I haven't watched this season. There's really only one evening a week I watch regular television now.

As for them praying for his dad, I don't have a problem with that if it's something his dad wants... though they shouldn't have done it behind his back. When my dad was on his deathbed people came and prayed with him and it didn't bother me as an atheist because it comforted him (he believed in god and prayed regularly). To me what mattered was that it brought him a little comfort in what was left of his life, and the fact that I didn't think it did any good was irrelevant. If they wanted to pray with me I politely declined. If he wanted me to sing a hymn for him, and it was one I remembered from my childhood, than I sang it for him, not because I believed in it, but because he did and that was what mattered. At that point it was all about making his last hours more bearable for him, and my beliefs didn't enter into it.

The biggest part is that his dad's religious beliefs are never made known in the story. For all we know, his dad could be an atheist as well. The way Kurt is offended, it seems that he and his father have the same beliefs. I could understand the other characters' bewilderment if his dad was that same religion, but the episode made it seem like that wasn't the case.

I am very glad I gave up on Glee a while ago. It sounds like this would have really pissed me off.

Oh yes, you would have had a much longer and more eloquent rant than I ever could.

I don't watch Glee, but I heard the rumblings on Twitter and FB and wondered what the rage was all about.

Now I get it.

Grrr.

Yeah, it is just super frustrating because the only action anyone can take is to write an angry letter. Rawr.

I did not agree with that they went to the hospital room to pray. They should have kept their prayers to themselves as Kurt did not believe. I do not agree with the whole in your face "This is what I believe and I'm going to throw it in your face"

But as a Christian, I do believe in prayer. I just usually keep it to myself. It's a personal thing. It may not do much good for something I'm praying for but for me personally, it's something I feel I can do. (But it shouldn't be shoved in people's faces.)

I also believe people believe other things and lighting a candle or lighting incense or saying a healing incantation is what other do in times of worry.

I was annoyed that they made it all about Christianity Vs. Atheism. And I would have liked to see them explore Judaism since two of the characters are Jewish.
And keep it at this is what I believe and why. And not This is what I believe and Why and you're wrong and why can't you see it my way.

It shouldn't be One View vs. Another View.

It should be what this gives person peace.... and the something else that gives another person peace.
(not sure if peace is the right word...)

In times of crisis, everyone has different ways of coping. If a friend who is an Atheist is in the hospital or going through something bad I'll say a prayer... but that's for me, to help me.

I think there's a great difference between a show of faith and shoving it down someone's throat like Glee did.

One thing about it, it got people thinking and discussing.

I believe in the power of prayer to the Christian God.
I also believe that others believe in the power of prayer to another diety. Or no prayer at all.

I did love the ending with Kurt and his father. I don't believe in God, but I believe in me and you.

Because at the end of the day what we have, is love..

oh and for the record: I believe in Santa Claus :D



Can I just say that I love you. You are what a Christian person should be! <3

And not only should they have explored the Jewish characters, but they should have shone a light on other religions as well.

What's Glee? That should tell you how important that was. LOL

As you said, there is always the OFF button or channel clicker.

My issue with organized religion (not faith) in that it discriminates. I have a whole long story on my Mormon supervisors. Fuckers kept telling me how to live my life, that I should not be an engineer and that I should 8 fucking kids. The Mormons turned me off to anything Mormon.

Glee is a show about a high school glee club and why everyone at the ball at Infinitus knew the words to Don't Stop Believing.

Growing up in a Mormon town (at least 95% of the people were Mormons) has really put me off the religion completely. I know of several families who have way too many children. The most horrible example is one family that has children ranging from 32 years old to 2 years old (and she is pregnant now even though she should have gone through menopause ages ago). The youngest 5 kids are mentally challenged and have all sorts of physical problems, but she won't stop having children.

Everything has already been said, but I was offended as well.

Especially with the one who didn't believe in God was the one who had something terrible happen to his family. Then, through the power of prayer, he recovers. BULLSHIT.

Also, Kurt's dad wouldn't have been allowed that many visitors in his hospital room. He just had a heart attack and was unconscious for fuck's sake!!

Ugh, exactly! They really tried to paint it like prayer works and god is wonderful and everything while vilifying people that didn't have the same opinion.

I thought that there might be an uproar over this episode, and so did the producers. They said that it would be the most controversial episode yet.

I was born and raised Roman Catholic, so my upbringing was different than the "norm." I struggle daily with what I believe in, so I'm not even going to go into that.

Now, I love Glee. That being said, I didn't like this episode from the beginning. I find it absolutely ridiculous that Finn is worshiping Grilled Cheesus, believing that it will grant him wishes.

I thought that it was intrusive for them to go and pray at Burt's bedside, when Kurt made it clear that he didn't want their prayers. They were free to pray as much as they liked, but not in Kurt's face.

It's the overbearing, fire-and-brimstone Christians that make it hard for the rest of us with a belief in God to be considered sane.

In the movies and on television, it is painted that prayer is an instant gratification, immediately making everything better, but even I don't believe that is true.

I have faith for me, not for anyone else. If I didn't, me personally, I would have been finished a long time ago.

But am I the only one excited for the Rocky Horror Glee Show???

I am, but I'm super worried they're going to eff it up!

I'm highly amused that this episode was so hated by several people on the opposite sides of the same equation. So many fervent theists have screamed about the cheapening of religion and so many atheists have been raging.

For me, the point of it all is that no one has all the answers and no person's beliefs can/will/should work for everybody, and sometimes the results are downright laughable in the searching - but I'm clearly alone in that thought. Again, sucks to be me. :D

But I love you, always. I like diverse opinions and honest (respectful) discussion. If an opinion can't handle a good challenge.... it isn't much of one, is it?

Gah - bad thought expression is bad.

The "it" of the second paragraph is reference to the show not life as a whole.

Off to find the rest of my brain that went away...

Oh dear. That sounds very dodgy--and I'm not at all agnostic or atheist. In fact, I'm pretty staunchly Catholic. But yeah, forcing your beliefs on someone else isn't the way to go about it, especially if you're Christian. Jesus said to preach the good news, not force people to accept him. The news isn't good at all then!

I don't really watch the show, but my pagan girlfriend does. She missed tonight's ep, though.

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